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Goku's Lies; Fight with Vegeta, Super Sayian 3
Topic Started: Nov 26 2011, 01:45 PM (1,377 Views)
Paikuan extreme
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DarkCore
Nov 28 2011, 08:15 PM
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta = SSJ2 Goku

Then,when Vegeta saw Goku's SSJ3 he realised Goku was more powerful

SSJ3 Goku > any Vegeta form

is this really that hard to understand ?
Taking what you say literally only has me wondering why you would insult yourself asking such a silly question...

Anyways, the reasoning behind what the OBVIOUS spoken truth is why these things are, KP and i go wayy back and alot deeper into the universe than most people.

To most people majin vegeta actually equals ssj2 goku in strength, but could NEVER explain why. So quoting numbers doenst mean much if you just believe what you are told. To me the only reason why people would believe goku was maxed out in that form was because he told vegeta that, he also lied to vegeta and made him think he wasnt more powerful than he already was, and evidence from the future also suggests that the both of them in fact find a deeper ssj2 strength with more training. Meaning that goku WASNT maxed out in his form and couldnt have possibly been even if he said so. He wasnt yet a true master of the form and was just speaking on what he knew. The true reason for the transfomations is to handle the power increase in the first place, not to just have access to more. Through training vegeta improved his combat training, through training goku stayed one step ahead and worked to improve a form he had discovered in his son 8 years previous...vegeta uses the majin seal to max out his potential in that form at the time, goku lowered himself to match vegetas strength and make the fight fair, and at this time gokus ssj3 transformation was instantaneous. Meaning he was well on his way to mastering this form and its strength as well. Vegetas maxed out and straining.....gokus at full power comfortably.... :huh: im sorry.. gokus not gonna win??? yeah ok... :cool:

Despite their Pl's during the fight they are NOT the same. Saying vegeta is equal to goku at that time is simply just not true...at all.

You guys just admire vegeta and have a wish upon a star syndrome because he gambled his soul and put everything he had into defeating goku and proving he was better, deep down to his core vegeta was an elitist, condescending ***** who realized he was just being tolerated because he was no threat. Thats the true reason he wanted to prove his superiority. He sold his soul to a wizard to just get a glimpse of what gokus power feels like. In the end he was destined to die and he knew it. Goku was stronger than him in body and mind. Toriyamas obvious point to the story between them.
Edited by Paikuan extreme, Nov 29 2011, 04:41 PM.
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DarkCore
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Why does this matter to you that much ? Vegeta realised he was outclassed when Goku turned SSJ3,and that is when Goku told him he was holding back,thing he was holding back was SSJ3,NOT maxpower SSJ2

and YES,Vegeta was equal to Goku's SSJ2,but in SSJ3 Goku would stomp him,stop being such in ignorant fanboy

oh and Toriyama could have said himself whatever he wanted about Vegeta,Vegeta is still the best made character in DBZ,he is original,badass,brave,intelligent,funny(in his own way :)),has inner demons and conflicts,hes not just another "purehearted but strong hero" like Goku,I see that concept heavily overused

And just something that is funny...

Vegeta beaten Goku in their 1v1 in Saiyan saga(he was later beaten by Yajirobe,Krilin and Gohan,but during ONLY VEGETA AND GOKU,Vegeta won ;)

And in their 2nd fight,Vegeta made a sucker punch,yea,but he still WON,and just proved Goku's naivety,Veggie wins again ;)

Vegeta : 2
Goku : 0

umad bro ? y you are kthxbye :cool:

Edited by DarkCore, Nov 29 2011, 05:52 PM.
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Paikuan extreme
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I see...so ur fanboyism beats out truth then. Figures...ur not a true fan of dbz...peace.
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So because Goku got stronger in SSjin 2, it means he wasn't maxed out at the point in time he said he was? That's like saying 100% SSjin Goku at the Cell Games wasn't really 100% because he still got stronger during the 7 years even after having said that training more in the RoSaT wouldn't yield any increase.
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DarkCore
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Ninjajp247
Nov 29 2011, 06:23 PM
I see...so ur fanboyism beats out truth then. Figures...ur not a true fan of dbz...peace.
my fanboism ? I love DBZ,and Goku and Vegeta are amongs my fave chars(yes,Vegeta being more favored),but you just don't really give any arguments and just bull***** around,there is a difference between a fan and a fanboy,and you sir,are a Goku fanboy and Vegeta hater.

You may not like it but how I said it,thats how it is.Same that you may not like that 2+2=4,but that doesn't change that it is.

Goku stated that he and Vegeta were equal,and at ssj2 they were,and I'm not gonna be a fanboy as you and I will admit that ssj3 Goku would beat Vegeta,and thats what everybody was talking about,and that is what Goku was hiding from Vegeta,SSJ3 not maxpower SSJ2

this is my last post,and you will excuse me if I from now on ignore you,you are a fanboy troll IMO
Edited by DarkCore, Nov 29 2011, 10:00 PM.
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Paikuan extreme
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Kamikaze Pyro
Nov 29 2011, 07:51 PM
So because Goku got stronger in SSjin 2, it means he wasn't maxed out at the point in time he said he was? That's like saying 100% SSjin Goku at the Cell Games wasn't really 100% because he still got stronger during the 7 years even after having said that training more in the RoSaT wouldn't yield any increase.
That would be like saying that, but then again if goku had ssj2 behind him it wouldnt matter would it? see where im going with this? gokus body just from BEINg an ssj3 is naturally stronger than vegetas and for good reason. He MAY have maxed out his power output for that form but it doesnt take away the fact that he was only using a fraction of his power. Goku said they were equal and was surprised right? thats because he didnt count on vegetas combat training improving as well, just his power. The majin seal let vegeta max out to a form he already had, he maxed out to MATCH goku, no more, no less, the exact math would HAVE to be off in this case as goku is living comfortably at 700 miles an hour and vegetas trying to catch his breath with his taxation being alot worse than gokus. There is no telling how long vegeta would have really lasted and thats something you guys wont admit. He didnt have long, babidi was already out to collect, expecting goku to kill him. Goku didnt want to, pretty simple, vegeta understands him having a whole other form means that he will ALWAYS have the advantage, why is that so hard for you guys to accept? Goku promised vegeta he wouldnt raise his power level and would keep it fair. Him saying this means and ONLY means, that he had to lower himself in order to appease vegeta, and when vegeta (knowing goku would keep his word) felt gokus power go down he knew what it was. It played out right in front of you and you dont even see it.
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Kblo247
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You know that Goku lived comfortably because he was dead right? You know that Vegeta was amped up because he was a Majin with essentially human like DNA and the form amped up humans like Spo and Yamu right?

Nowhere do they say he put out and/or lost more energy than Goku. the two pounded on eanother and kept fighting. The durability of Gokus body came from him being dead. He didn't use the ssj3 form which was his true power because he couldn't hold it without killing his time on earth, he however did fight all out as a ssj2 versus Majin Vegeta. The difference between them being calm and amped is at Goku was Goku and Vegeta had to kick demons out his mind to control himself completely. The form was already one of intensity, but intensity doesn't mean over exertion or loss of energy outside the kaioken.

Also don't give me that bs of Goku promising Vegeta to not raise his power. Vegeta would rather be slaughtered by his full power than toyed with by the thought he had back. Vegeta was mad he hid ssj3 from him, which Goku had to do since he was told not to use it on Earth because it would run his time out. He doesnt ever once say he was pissed Goku held back in their battle as ssj2s because by Gokus own admission he didn't. Goku even commented on how Vegeta was no push over and he couldn't end the fight abruptly because of it. They were equals without the ssj3 form which had restriction imposed on it by divine rules.

Next you will try to sell Goku being stronger than Vegeta when they first met
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 30 2011, 01:48 AM.
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That would be like saying that, but then again if goku had ssj2 behind him it wouldnt matter would it? see where im going with this? gokus body just from BEINg an ssj3 is naturally stronger than vegetas and for good reason.

Naturally, yes, maybe, but Vegeta wasn't in his natural state during their fight so it doesn't matter.
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He MAY have maxed out his power output for that form but it doesnt take away the fact that he was only using a fraction of his power.

His overall power, yes.
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Goku said they were equal and was surprised right? thats because he didnt count on vegetas combat training improving as well, just his power.

He wasn't expecting Vegeta to be as powerful as him.
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The majin seal let vegeta max out to a form he already had, he maxed out to MATCH goku, no more, no less, the exact math would HAVE to be off in this case as goku is living comfortably at 700 miles an hour and vegetas trying to catch his breath with his taxation being alot worse than gokus.

:huh: Looks like they're both out of breath to me.

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There is no telling how long vegeta would have really lasted and thats something you guys wont admit.

He was Majinized so he had extra durability. Goku was in a dead body that granted extra durability as well. Still equal to me.
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He didnt have long, babidi was already out to collect, expecting goku to kill him.

Babidi never expected Goku to kill Vegeta.
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Goku didnt want to, pretty simple, vegeta understands him having a whole other form means that he will ALWAYS have the advantage, why is that so hard for you guys to accept?

Nobody's ever said Goku didn't have the advantage in an all-out fight, but this is a fight restricted to SSjin 2.
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Goku promised vegeta he wouldnt raise his power level and would keep it fair.

I want the quote of this please, not you just saying he did.
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Him saying this means and ONLY means, that he had to lower himself in order to appease vegeta, and when vegeta (knowing goku would keep his word) felt gokus power go down he knew what it was. It played out right in front of you and you dont even see it.

Are you still talking about their fight? I don't understand this.

If Goku was holding back power as a SSjin 2, he would've said so when he told Vegeta he held back an entire other form.
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Kblo247
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Hell I don't understand what he says in relation to even the anime, let alone manga. I discussed the manga in the post earlier loosely to corradict him and you did good pyro.

If we are talking about the anime thou, he has no argument other. Vegeta was a step ahead of him throughout their fight. Even when Goku used Instant Transmission Vegeta knew where he was. He called him a clown, escape artist, choked him, ***** slapped him, and so on. Goku even tells him Vegeta stop three times when he is attacking to feel Buus power because Vegeta was content with whooping his behind some more and he couldn't catch a break. And even when Goku did attack seriously Vegeta said, "KAKAROT, I thought we were skipping the warm up"


I really want to know this magical world where Goku holds back his ssj2 or lowers it because it sure isn't the manga where they were dead even or the anime where Vegeta was the main one on offense
Edited by Kblo247, Nov 30 2011, 05:32 AM.
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Mihawk
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Majin boost durability = Goku dead durability. Although one could argue that being dead has more of an advantage because of how Goku got SSJ3 in the condition of being dead and he said it was easier to sustain.

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